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Siamak

Who do you trust?

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I agree with you Keyvan.

 

There can be no real change unless the "unelected officials" are removed. But to do that would be to remove the structure of the IRI b/c its structure is based on having a "supreme leader" and others such as the "guardian council" etc. who are unelected and answerable to no one "but God."

 

So in short, there is absolutely no reform possible in a MEANINGFUL and SERIOUS way unless the entire structure is changed, by which the unelected clericals are no longer in power, and therefore no longer an "Islamc Republic of Iran." To remove the unelected officials and by havinng an elected form of gov't, there would be real democracy and no longer an "Islamic Republic."

 

I think that if you ask a person who has a relative shot in the head for eating during ramadan, or a girl who has been beaten for showing her hair, or a man for getting kidnapped and thrown in jail for holding hands with someone who he is no married to, (dear Hashemi) they will tell you that the economy is NOT everything. Those issue have just an important impact in a person's life than do economic issues.

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I agree with you Keyvan.

 

There can be no real change unless the "unelected officials" are removed. But to do that would be to remove the structure of the IRI b/c its structure is based on having a "supreme leader" and others such as the "guardian council" etc. who are unelected and answerable to no one "but God."

 

 

Unelected officials!

But how can you say that "unelected officials" are the problem and call for a Constitutional Monarchy! Who is a king answerable to?

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I think you know the answer to that but you just want to mislead people. But so that everyone is clear:

 

In a constitutional monarchy, the king does not have substantive power. His role is ceremonial. In addition, his powers are controlled by the parliament and the constitution itself (thus the name constitutional monarchy). Look at Britain for example.

 

That is 100% NOT like the Mullas in the country today whereby khamenei can veto any law for any reason and no one can overturn his veto. A constitutional monarch does not have such powers. Laws are passed by the parliament and cannot be vetoed by the king who does not have such power in such a system.

 

A constitutional monarchy is also 100% unlike the current IRI whereby the guardian council CHOOSE what members the public can even vote for!!! That is called pure control over poeple's choices. In a consitutional monarchy, a king does not have the power to limit who runs or doesnt. Again, his role is more ceremonial and to serve the people.

 

ANYWAY, let's have a DEMOCRATIC gov't first, and then we can decide whether the people want a constitutional monarchy or just a domocratic republic. In the end, either of those choices will be free of unelected official who hold ALL the power (such as the IRI).

 

Hashemi: Do you support the unelected officials today and the unlimited power that they hold such as to veto and control who runs for majlis?

 

Anyway, please make clear (I have asked this at least 5 times with no answer) on whether you want Iran to remain an Islamic Republic? (when you keep saying the Mullas are not the problem, you are inversly saying that there is no reason to get rid of them from power)

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I think you know the answer to that but you just want to mislead people. But so that everyone is clear:

 

In a constitutional monarchy, the king does not have substantive power. His role is ceremonial. In addition, his powers are controlled by the parliament and the constitution itself (thus the name constitutional monarchy). Look at Britain for example.

 

That is 100% NOT like the Mullas in the country today whereby khamenei can veto any law for any reason and no one can overturn his veto. A constitutional monarch does not have such powers. Laws are passed by the parliament and cannot be vetoed by the king who does not have such power in such a system.

 

A constitutional monarchy is also 100% unlike the current IRI whereby the guardian council CHOOSE what members the public can even vote for!!! That is called pure control over poeple's choices. In a consitutional monarchy, a king does not have the power to limit who runs or doesnt. Again, his role is more ceremonial and to serve the people.

 

ANYWAY, let's have a DEMOCRATIC gov't first, and then we can decide whether the people want a constitutional monarchy or just a domocratic republic. In the end, either of those choices will be free of unelected official who hold ALL the power (such as the IRI).

 

Hashemi: Do you support the unelected officials today and the unlimited power that they hold such as to veto and control who runs for majlis?

 

Anyway, please make clear (I have asked this at least 5 times with no answer) on whether you want Iran to remain an Islamic Republic? (when you keep saying the Mullas are not the problem, you are inversly saying that there is no reason to get rid of them from power)

 

So you want a republic, and if it works out a ceremonial king. We have loads of money, we can pay for a "moft-khor". Thats ok with me. But I'm not sure what the poor buggers living in "meydoon khorasoon" will like that very much.

 

But you see there is another issue that I've been sweeping under the rug;

Because of Irans vast natural resources, a "fully" democratic regime will fall into even deeper corruption than the current regime. The reason for this is foreign influence. The day the government in Iran falls, everyone from the queen of England to the hounds of hell will be trying to influence the formation of the next government.

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Having respect for our history and upholding our heritage is not "throwing away money to mof-khors."

 

With regard to foreign influence, there will always be an attempt at that. In fact, the current regime came into power with the direct influence of the Europeans and most notably the British. These same countries are the ones that have helped the IRI stay in power so they can swallow up the resources.

 

However, having a democratic regime will allow Iranians to become informed and vote those who they believe are looking out for the best of Iranians and Iran and kick out the ones who are looking out for themselves and foreigners. Therefore, having a democratic regime will be a great strive to lower foreign influence on unelected officials that the Iranian people are currently unalbe to remove and corruption is extremely high for that same exact reason.

 

Why don't you want to answer whether you support the IRI? I mean the answer is very clear but the fact that you just ignore that comment over and over is very interesting. Anyway...

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However, having a democratic regime will allow Iranians to become informed and vote those who they believe are looking out for the best of Iranians and Iran and kick out the ones who are looking out for themselves and foreigners. Therefore, having a democratic regime will be a great strive to lower foreign influence on unelected officials that the Iranian people are currently unalbe to remove and corruption is extremely high for that same exact reason.

 

Why don't you want to answer whether you support the IRI? I mean the answer is very clear but the fact that you just ignore that comment over and over is very interesting. Anyway...

 

Yes that is all very nice, But you didnt' get what I'm saying.

There is no guarantee in what you are saying to be achieved through regeime change.

 

I did answer your question, in the other thread.

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Of course there is no gaurantee when the stakes are this high. But when you look at the world today, open nations, meaning those that are free and democratic are by far much less subject to foreign influence than those that are not open and democratic. I think that most people, including myself, rather take the chance to change the regime when the odds of influence are a lot less with an open and democratic regime.

 

And since you said in the other thread that you rather not see regime change (i.e. you support this regime) of course you'll say that things should remain as they are today.

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But when you look at the world today, open nations, meaning those that are free and democratic are by far much less subject to foreign influence than those that are not open and democratic. I think that most people, including myself, rather take the chance to change the regime when the odds of influence are a lot less with an open and democratic regime.

 

I don't think Mosadegh will agree with you very much.

 

And since you said in the other thread that you rather not see regime change (i.e. you support this regime) of course you'll say that things should remain as they are today.

 

What is that supposed to mean! I explained my logic to you. Why are you acting as if I was trying to hide something. Did I have to spell it out to you. I've been yelling "regime change wont fix anything". Can't you read between the lines.

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Mossadeq = 50 years ago

 

I said free nations TODAY.

 

I think taking a sample of the countries proves my point very well. And how do you know what Mossadeg would say today to make such a comment? Oh.. ok.. i get it.. you say that's what mossadeg would say without any basis to further your point to keep the regime. i get it now..

 

and i could read between the lines. i could tell from your very early posts. now its nice that you have admit to it and no longer playing that particular hide my views game.

 

:silly_wft: :silly_wft: :silly_wft:

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Mossadeq = 50 years ago

 

I said free nations TODAY.

 

I think taking a sample of the countries proves my point very well. And how do you know what Mossadeg would say today to make such a comment? Oh.. ok.. i get it.. you say that's what mossadeg would say without any basis to further your point to keep the regime. i get it now..

 

and i could read between the lines. i could tell from your very early posts. now its nice that you have admit to it and no longer playing that particular hide my views game.

 

:silly_wft: :silly_wft: :silly_wft:

 

Oh so since 50 years ago, things have changed, but since 2500 years ago things haven't changed and a monarchy is still a must!

 

Now your just being childish, this is my last post on this forum.

 

But if the regime in Iran does fall in a few months or years from now, just sit back and watch how the following events happen one by one:

 

1) Huge violance, bomings and shootings brake out all across the country by different groups trying to exploit the situation.

2) the newly formed government is erged to enforce law and order.

3) the newly formed government notices that certain groups are "enciting terror" through the "freedom of speech".

4) the newly formed government clamps down on these publications.

But then how do you define the "enciting of terror", so a person is assign to a possition to distinguish what is and what sin't "enciting terror".

5) groups that are considered to be enciting terror and their publications band, go underground and start to get even more violent.

6) the newly formed government labels these groups as the enemy (because they are obstructing progress).

but this "enemy" can't be well defined either.

7) all the different political groups start labling the other groups as the "true" enemy that must be stamped out. And this is allowed under the freedom of speech.

8) finally one party will manage to label everyone else as the enemy, and gain totall control, anyone questioning them will be the "enemy" and will be crushed (because they are obstructing progress).

 

and you know what happens after that.

Elections will still be held, but the "enemy" can't have a candidate.

 

Then we can all come back and start pointing the finger of guilt at each other.

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It's lovely how you can see the future so clearly and in a way that supports your goal to keep this regime in power.

 

Let's me see if I can predict the future

 

(1) IRI falls

 

(2) Iranians come together to form a democratic gov't that everyone is free to say what they want and practice what they want.

 

(3) Iranians will remove religion from form of gov't

 

(4) some will try to ruin the new system but they are extreme minorities and will dissolve in the system

 

(5) a system is set up that is representative

 

(6) Iran thrives in the future b/c transparancy in the form of gov't will lower the corruption exponentially...

 

And monarchy is not from 2,500 years ago like you like to claim. Rather, it has been a continuous part of Iran (except for times of occupation) from about 7,000 years ago until 27 years ago. So stop your misleading statements and your statements that without any support just reach an outcome that you would like to keep the IRI in power.

 

And isn't it interesting that the only time that Iran has not been under a monarchy is when it has been under occupation... today there is no monarchy... can you finish the rest of this logic??? I think everyone who thinks clearly can and knows that logic to be true

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haha...bebin chi shod Meehan? you figured him out so hes not gona post anymore!

 

Agha Hashemi...its sad to say Meehan isnt the one being childish....you are :)

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Just Student movements .

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i have to say i thought that when i read the article that none of these options appealed to me...i go to iran regularly and spend a lot of time there and even consider going to live there at some point....although i dont find it hard under the current regime doesnt mean i agree with it...it is easy for us to sit in our comfy democratic countries and pass sentence on the current state of iran and how it should become but it is only the people of iran that can help themselves....power to the people!

 

Iran is a Muslim country. Maybe you gharbzadeh or zartoshti people can't accept that, but its true.

 

If you want Iran to become the 51st state of America, please leave the country or stay outside of her.

 

You cannot defeat Saheb Zaman.

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come together to form a democratic gov't that everyone is free to say what they want and practice what they want.

 

(3) Iranians will remove religion from form of gov't

 

The faithful never separate religion from politics. What stupidity is it to think so?

 

If you want to replace IRI, you will have to kill every one of us - and thats tens of millions.

 

We love death, whereas you fear it.

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come together to form a democratic gov't that everyone is free to say what they want and practice what they want.

 

(3) Iranians will remove religion from form of gov't

 

The faithful never separate religion from politics. What stupidity is it to think so?

 

If you want to replace IRI, you will have to kill every one of us - and thats tens of millions.

 

We love death, whereas you fear it.

 

Congratulations my zealous and intolerant friend! You manged to finally get yourself banned!

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We love death, whereas you fear it.

 

Yes, I saw some youtube clips of your beloved basijis in recent weeks demonstration, indeed they all were ready to be martyred! :rolleyes:

 

Shooting at people while running away:

 

 

 

 

Go chant your non sense slogans elsewhere!

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come together to form a democratic gov't that everyone is free to say what they want and practice what they want.

 

(3) Iranians will remove religion from form of gov't

 

The faithful never separate religion from politics. What stupidity is it to think so?

 

If you want to replace IRI, you will have to kill every one of us - and thats tens of millions.

 

We love death, whereas you fear it.

 

 

I clearly see the day that "we" will cut yours and your friends' heads off your dirty body. That's when fear will surrender every single moment of your life, then you will feel the shadow of cruel death over your entire existence on the planet. Count Down!

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Araam,

 

Please refrain from using such strong language and violent statements, after all this is a public forum and not a Private message!

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Aram, I am not banning him for his opinion! I am banning him for his intolerance and uncivil approach! Regardless of stand and which side one supports we do not want people getting passionate beyond reason, because in that case there is no difference who replaces IRI or that it even gets replaced! Because it will be by a similar intolerant culture! Again, please let us all practice being civil! Thank you!

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Pourya jaan your right...

 

Khodaish sometimes mire ro nerve dadash pourya. Regardless whatever, your point is very well cooked.

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Aram jan, being from same culture I have the same nerve as you can understand! However in order for us as a nation to reach anything close to a democratic culture some day in the future we need to consciously practice our mentality to reason and then react! Because it would be naive to suggest that IRI and its mob are the only ones with a tendency to irrationality! Its a mentality living and leeching in our society and if we don't learn to see it and leash it everyone of us would be vulnerable to it! The "gheirat" and blind passion which covers our eyes with blood is a double edged sword which can cut both ways and destroy both ways! That way our claim to 2500 years of culture and a current civility is nothing more than a paper thin facade! So let us try to learn how to control our pulsating and easily pushable nerve, since it is the exact same nerve that drives our opponents and is the Achilles' heel of us all!

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