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Born Muslim -- Still a Muslim?

Born Muslim - Still Muslim?  

57 members have voted

  1. 1. Born Muslim - Still Muslim?

    • Born Muslim - Still 100% Muslim
      24
    • Born Muslim - Doubting Islam
      5
    • Born Muslim - No longer Muslim (believe in God only)
      18
    • Born Muslim - Believe in a different religion
      10


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I am muslim and proud of it yet i also love the other great profits and their religions ( Abraham, Moses, Zartosht, Jesus, etc.) I am actually going to become a sufi muslim.There is nothing wrong with islam, infact it's almost exactly the same as the big religions because we all believe in the same thing, GOD. But lately some muslims are doing EXTREMELY SINFUL things in the world, but that dosen't mean that ALL muslims are bad, or that Mohhammad is bad, or that islam is a bad religion. Islam is not a bad religion, nor is any other religion that believes in GOD the right way. So if some people from a religion do something bad does that mean that I have to hate that religion and all who follow it? NO not at all, Ex. Look at the KKK and Hitlor, they did extremely bad and sinful things, does that mean I have to hate ALL Christians? NO. Does that mean i have to hate Jesus? No, I will NEVER hate Jesus. Look at when some of the Zorastorians killed the prophet Mani. Does that mean i have to hate All the Zorastorians and Zartosht? NO, i would Never hate Zartosht or Zorastorians. And remember, it wasnt omar koshun who brought Islam, it was Mohhammad. I don't think Mohhammad liked what omar did, at all. Infact, during that time, Mohhammad came peacefully to our great empire and talked to our kings and people, peacefully, and also attended some persian festivals (NOROOZ).

So did some of the Emams also, like Emam Ali who's son, Emam Housain married a persian princess and who loved each other very much ( that is why the majority of Iran is Shia). Our King gracussly and kindly siad no, and they went away, During that time though, some villigars in Persia did become moslem, but not the majority at that time. I LOVE my persian past and LOVE my calture, but that doesn't mean that we all should be one big religion in one country, like the stupid islamic republic wants, and that doesnt mean that I should reject islam. Every religion was made for ANYBODY, not just a specific group. Really, The Prophets did not come to make their own religion, they came to give the teachings of GOD, meaning we should have all been really ONE BIG RELIGION, the religion of GOD. It was the peoples fault however that siad we should follow this prophet or this prophet.

I hope you understood what i siad and i hope that everyone will understand in the future.

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Let me start by saying that I respect people's views, so long as they are supported by fact and evidence. I am not sure how much you know about Islam or about how Iranians became Muslim, but from your post, it appears that you know very little, and all of your information has come from religious teachings, and not from any independent or objective study.

 

I will go through you post in its entirety, and I hope that I get a response from you, hopefully after you look into the issues a bit more. So here it is...

 

I am muslim and proud of it yet i also love the other great profits and their religions ( Abraham, Moses, Zartosht, Jesus, etc.) I am actually going to become a sufi muslim.

 

Fair enough, so far.

 

There is nothing wrong with islam, infact it's almost exactly the same as the big religions because we all believe in the same thing, GOD.

 

With this regard, I strongly urge you to read the Quran in a langauge that you understand, and read it a true translation where words have not been changed, or verses left out. In the meantime, I suggest that you go to the following link, a section in this forum, that discusses Quranic laws, and ask yourself if you were aware of these rules, and if you agree or accept them. The section is pretty new and will have more subjects.

 

http://forum.bia2.com/index.php?showtopic=3150

 

I can tell you without hesitation, that the Quran has many inhumane rules. Most of the humane rules have to do with those who are believers, and all non-believers will burn in hell, and many other attrotious acts will become upon themin this life. I hope that you visit that link once in a while, and I strongly urge you to look up those verses and understand that is what the Quran requires.

 

So in short, I strongly believe that there is a lot wrong with Islam, b/c there are many inhumane and attortious rules in the Quran, which is the basis of Islam.

 

But lately some muslims are doing EXTREMELY SINFUL things in the world, but that dosen't mean that ALL muslims are bad, or that Mohhammad is bad, or that islam is a bad religion. Islam is not a bad religion, nor is any other religion that believes in GOD the right way.

 

Again, you must look to the source of a religion. With regard to Islam, it is the Quran. This book requires the cutting off of hands and feet in opposite directions or from behind, killing the non-beleivers, not being friends with those who are not Muslim, burning in hell those who do not believe in Islam, giving 1/2 of the value of men to women, and on and on and on...

 

In fact, contrary to what you say, those who call themselves Muslim can be very good people b/c they do not follow or accept these rules; but the religion itself, in toto is not peaceful or forigiving or constructive at all.

 

So if some people from a religion do something bad does that mean that I have to hate that religion and all who follow it? NO not at all, Ex. Look at the KKK and Hitlor, they did extremely bad and sinful things, does that mean I have to hate ALL Christians? NO. Does that mean i have to hate Jesus? No, I will NEVER hate Jesus. Look at when some of the Zorastorians killed the prophet Mani. Does that mean i have to hate All the Zorastorians and Zartosht? NO, i would Never hate Zartosht or Zorastorians. And remember, it wasnt omar koshun who brought Islam, it was Mohhammad.

 

Not much comment here. But I reiterate that with Islam, it is the text of the Quran that REQUIRES the acts that you today say should not be done. If the Quran requires it and the people follow it, then the fault originates with the Quran, the basis of Islam.

 

I don't think Mohhammad liked what omar did, at all. Infact, during that time, Mohhammad came peacefully to our great empire and talked to our kings and people, peacefully, and also attended some persian festivals (NOROOZ).

 

This is the most outrageous thing I have ever heard. Mohammad died before the Arab invasion of Iran and never got to Iran himself. This is why I say that you have received all of your information from religious schools that refabricate history. In fact, in the Quran, which Mohammad wrote, he says do not be friends with Christians or Jews. He says that non-believers must pay wages if they do not want to convert to Islam. He says that those who are against Islam, we will never accept this of them. He says that the non-believers should be killed. How can he be peaceful?

 

Again, he never made it to Iran. In fact, they called our forefathers Atash Parast, and had very low regard for them. I really think that you should learn more about history before makin such comments.

 

So did some of the Emams also, like Emam Ali who's son, Emam Housain married a persian princess and who loved each other very much ( that is why the majority of Iran is Shia).

 

For your information, either Hussein or Hassan said that Iranian men are not worth anything more than slaves, and their women more than maids. Iranian women, after the Arab invasion of Islam were raped and became maids and slaves. If one of Ali's wives was Persian, I assure you it was not by choice, but a demand of Ali. In Islam, women have very low regard and must do what the men say. In the Quran it says that Men, you Women are your property, and their place is inthe house, and you made enter them as you wish. Again, your information are from Mullas. Please reconsider your stance after your ead more history.

 

Our King gracussly and kindly siad no, and they went away, During that time though, some villigars in Persia did become moslem, but not the majority at that time.

 

Read the letter from Omar to Yadigerd and his response to see if the Arabs "graciously" went away. http://www.bozorgbazgasht.com/yazdgird.html

 

There were wars for decades and there were many uprisings. Refer to this other topic at this forum. http://forum.bia2.com/index.php?showtopic=3155

 

How was this gracious. There was no choice. The demand was to either convert or die. Go look to Abu Goraiza on google, and see how many people Ali killed b/c that tribe did not want to convert to Islam. In Yazd, they cut off the heads of Zoroastrians who did not convert to Islam, and forced them to do so.

 

Please, look these up. And please, do not rely on Mullas to give you accurate information.

 

I LOVE my persian past and LOVE my calture, but that doesn't mean that we all should be one big religion in one country, like the stupid islamic republic wants, and that doesnt mean that I should reject islam.

 

True. But you also should not be such a strong supporter of Islam and make statements about it that are not true, when you yourself do not have much knowledge on the subject, as your post appears. You are free to be whatever releigion you want, but you have to realize that Iranians are "Mulsim" today b/c they were forced and their heads chopped off if they did not want to convert. Today, if someone wants to change their religion, the IRI is following QURANIC RULES that one who converts "will NEVER be accepted of them" and their "destiny is doom". That is what the Quran says. Look at this topic about what the QURAN (which the IRI is following) requires. The IRI is in fact just following Quranic rules: http://forum.bia2.com/index.php?showtopic=2967.

 

Every religion was made for ANYBODY, not just a specific group. Really, The Prophets did not come to make their own religion, they came to give the teachings of GOD, meaning we should have all been really ONE BIG RELIGION, the religion of GOD. It was the peoples fault however that siad we should follow this prophet or this prophet.

I hope you understood what i siad and i hope that everyone will understand in the future.

 

I don't really have much comment here b/c it will be repetative of the above. But I really do hope that you study your history and religion more and understand more about it. This is b/c I beleive you are blindly following and defending Islam without having a true understanding of it.

 

Ba Sepaas! I hope that my post helps your understanding of Islam, and a rebuttal to your statements :)

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First of all, you must understand i would NEVER rely on a mulla's advice. The hate i have for the so called "islamic republic" is so big that i realy can not explain. You also have to understand that the Quran was made after Mohammad's death by so called "believer's" of islam who have made up their own rules and laws of islam. Also the Quran, like many of the other holy books, are like stories written over and over again and changed over and over agian ( sorry for my bad grammer). Over the years people have added their own thougts and translations into the Quran (and the rest of the holy books the same). The same thing also happened with the SHAHNAMEH OF FERDOWSI ( 1 of my FAVORITE story/poem collection of ALL TIME ).

But Reza Shah tried to find the old texts of the shahnameh back. From what i heard, Reza Shah found only some actual peices of the Shahnameh.

 

I have read many of the same holy books and they all had something different in them.

Islam is based on all the other religions that came before it ( I.E. Judaism and Christanity) And yes Muslims do believe in the same things as the other religions do. Why do we believe in Abraham, Adam, Noah, Angel Gaberial, Eve, Jesus, Moses, the epacolips etc.

 

Adam was the one who was holding the stone that is in the Kabba, the big black box in Mecca, That Abraham created. The Angel Gabriel was the one who came to Mohammad and siad that who was the chosen one.

And like most other Religions, we believe in the same story of Adam and Eve, Noah and the flooding of Earth, Abraham showing GOD his respect to him, and much other stuff muslims beleive are the same to most other religions, mainly Judaism and Christianity. And also some Zorastorian things. Like the Great Angel Faravahar is Gaberial (to my thought he is), and Yima (jamshid in modern persian) is kinda Noah. Zorastorians believe in Adam and Eve yet Ahura Mazada (GOD) put thim on Earth from the beggining, but God actually made a man befor he made Adam and Eve in Zorastorinism. Zorastorianism also have a Epacolips.

This shows that Islam is from most other religions or we would not be believing this stuff at all. If you say that Islam is a bad religion and that everything in it is phony, then you really are insulting most religions out there ( I.E. Judaism, Christianity ( Oh and what does "I.E." really mean. Please tell me if I'm using it in the right place).

 

If people were actually to believe that with islam your hand must be "cut" or to "cut of a head" for doing a sin, then people should also beleive with christianity, non-belevers of christ or that that not believing that christ was the son of GOD, you will go to hell.

 

I actually know that Mohammad had died before the arab invasion and mixed him up with the other believers of islam who went into Iran and thought the teachings of islam. Sorry about that.

 

I have read the letter from omar to Yazdgird, and in this case omar was very dumb and stupid and did not know that Zorastorians actually beleived in God. Instead of studing the religion, omar just thought of Zorastorians as fire worshipers, wich is was very very wrong. Yazdgird got furious by this letter, towr it up, and wrote a letter back omar, making omar furious thus taking over Iran and being very hateful towards Iran. Again, a very very wrong thing to do, thats why most of us Iranians think of arabs as very low people (note how i wrote "arabs" as lower case).

 

Unfortunatlly, you are right when you say that alot of muslims think of themselfs of having the best religion and that Islam is the best religion in the world, wich it is not. To me there are no "best religions." To me all religions are equal and really depends how you want to follow GOD. But during the Sassanian dynasty, many Zorastorians also beleived that they were the best and had the best religion. http://www.iranchamber.com/religions/manichaeism1.php

 

Also Zorastorianism inspired islamic traditions. Like for instance the "evil eye", "In the name of GOD", the esfand. Zorastorianism also inspired some Christian traditons too. The coloring of eggs, wintersolstis wich actually came from the Persian Shab-e-Yalda, and yes......the greatest.....jollyiest......fatest creature of them all, Santa Clause and his elf workers ( i think you know who KINDA inspired him. That's right Amoo Norooz and Haji furooz, except Amoo Norooz isnt fat. And I already know the story of the real Saint Nicolas. AND YES I DO BELIEVE IN AMOO NOROOZ, BECAUSE HE'S REAL. HE REALLY IS, I SAW HIM, REALLY!!!!!!!!!)

 

Please don't tell me that you are qouting the Quran that the islamic republic made because that whole book is a big lie. Also, please don't say that you are following fuladvand, because he makes up big lies also.

 

I also beleive that iranians who are changing their religion fromm islam to another not because of islam itself but rather because of the "islamic repubic of iran." ( You know what, instead of a war, maybe Bush should just tell the Tehranians to evacuate Tehran secretly and america should bomb the islamic republic. I would very very like that. I would be dancing forever :happy_wft: :DD :dance_baby_wft: :clap2: :yeah: )

 

Do you also have any ideas on how to save Iran while being outside Iran? ( and i don't mean protesting or pititions because i don't think that's working)

 

Also, what do you think about Suffi muslims?

 

Oh and why didn't you add Ferdowsi on your list of great iranian heroes? Being a hero dosen't always mean you have to fight and shed blood.

 

Oh and i also replied to one of your topics also http://forum.bia2.com/index.php?act=ST&f=6...t=0#entry220817

 

Again, I'm sorry if I offended you.

 

But I mean we are human and we shouldn't fight on a matter that happened 2,000 years ago, look hear we are fighting each other when we could be good freinds, right? All that we need to know is that we don't like arabs and that we both have persian pride and come from a great culture that alot of iranians miss use.

 

To tell you the truth, I once also wanted to become a Zartosht. But even thoe I'm muslim doesn't mean I don't follow Zartosht's rules also. I also follow Goftaranik, Pendaranik, and Rafdaranik. I'm still studying Zorastorianism. I also celebrate Christmas( but i think its just to feel how a western lifestyle is).

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You also have to understand that the Quran was made after Mohammad's death by so called "believer's" of islam who have made up their own rules and laws of islam.

 

If it was written by believers and not Mohammad itself, then it is even more proof that it is not the word of God b/c the only person who proclaimed himself to be a prophet of God is Mohammad. If all of these rules are man written, and are not the word of God, and they are so inhumane and vicious, why would any rational person follow them?

 

Also the Quran, like many of the other holy books, are like stories written over and over again and changed over and over agian ( sorry for my bad grammer).

 

You just contradicted yourself with your first setence. If this was written by men who were not prophets, but were only believers, it cannot be a "holy book" b/c it was not written by a Prophet, and is thus not the word of God.

 

Over the years people have added their own thougts and translations into the Quran (and the rest of the holy books the same). The same thing also happened with the SHAHNAMEH OF FERDOWSI ( 1 of my FAVORITE story/poem collection of ALL TIME ).

 

So we agree that it is not a holy book b/c it was written and changed by Men. So why Kill people over for not following the rules?

 

But Reza Shah tried to find the old texts of the shahnameh back. From what i heard, Reza Shah found only some actual peices of the Shahnameh.

 

This is irrelevant to the discussion on being a Muslim or not.

 

I have read many of the same holy books and they all had something different in them.

 

Well obviously. Otherwise, why have different ones?

 

Islam is based on all the other religions that came before it ( I.E. Judaism and Christanity) And yes Muslims do believe in the same things as the other religions do. Why do we believe in Abraham, Adam, Noah, Angel Gaberial, Eve, Jesus, Moses, the epacolips etc.

 

Muslims believe in some of things that other religions do. BUT the difference is that in Islam, you must accept it as the true and final religion , and must follow its rules, or your destiney is doom. And so what that you believe in some of the same things?

 

Adam was the one who was holding the stone that is in the Kabba, the big black box in Mecca, That Abraham created. The Angel Gabriel was the one who came to Mohammad and siad that who was the chosen one.

 

And this is from the Quran, right? My question is why God couldnt get it RIGHT the first time with Moses, then he went to Jesus, and then to Mohammad? Isn't the more realistic story that the religions just pretended they had prophets for other goals?

 

If we are talking about GOD, that entity in all of religion's definitions's is PERFECT. And someone who is perfect, need not make mistatkes to later send prophets to CHANGE many of the rules and say DO NOT BE FREINDS WITH THOSE RELIGIONS THAT CAME BEFORE YOU, and I will kill you if you change your religion, etc.

 

And like most other Religions, we believe in the same story of Adam and Eve, Noah and the flooding of Earth, Abraham showing GOD his respect to him, and much other stuff muslims beleive are the same to most other religions, mainly Judaism and Christianity.

 

And ??? It still does not fix the problem that the Quran is very vicious and has an enourmous amount of inhumane rules.

 

And also some Zorastorian things. Like the Great Angel Faravahar is Gaberial (to my thought he is), and Yima (jamshid in modern persian) is kinda Noah. Zorastorians believe in Adam and Eve yet Ahura Mazada (GOD) put thim on Earth from the beggining, but God actually made a man befor he made Adam and Eve in Zorastorinism. Zorastorianism also have a Epacolips.

 

Ok...

 

This shows that Islam is from most other religions or we would not be believing this stuff at all. If you say that Islam is a bad religion and that everything in it is phony, then you really are insulting most religions out there ( I.E. Judaism, Christianity ( Oh and what does "I.E." really mean. Please tell me if I'm using it in the right place).

 

Not at all. Islam took PARTS of other religions, and CHANGED other parts of it. There are some good rules in Islam, BUT all of these rules, or almost all of them, are TAKEN from other religion. BUT Islam added some of the most viciouos rules that do NOT exist in other religion. This is why there is a difference and not following Islam is not an insult to others.

 

In fact, Islam DISPRESPECTS other religions by saying do not be friends to people who follow those religions. In addition, it produces doom for them and will never accept of them, if people want to be those religions.

 

So your statement that if you don't beliver in Islam or that Islam is bad means others are bad is NOT true at all b/c only parts of other religions are stated in Islam, and Islam adds many other negative rules.

 

Either way, I really can care less about other religions, and am not advocating for them. If they have inhumane rules, those rules should not be followed either.

 

Continued in next post.

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If people were actually to believe that with islam your hand must be "cut" or to "cut of a head" for doing a sin, then people should also beleive with christianity, non-belevers of christ or that that not believing that christ was the son of GOD, you will go to hell.

 

This is WHY i get the sense that you are HASHEMI after being banned under a different SN!!! This exact point was made before.

 

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the Quran that says you MUST cut off hands and feet and KILL in THIS WORLD , thus giving the power to beleivers to do attrotious acts on non-believers in THIS WORLD vs. SCARING people of going to hell AFTER they die. If you do not belive in the religion in the first place, you will not believe in its HELL, so you won't have to worry about what will happen to you in the after life. BUT in Islam, if you don't believe in it, or do certain acts, you LIFE is taken away from you, or your hands and feet are CUT OFF -- huge difference, dont you think?

 

I actually know that Mohammad had died before the arab invasion and mixed him up with the other believers of islam who went into Iran and thought the teachings of islam. Sorry about that.

 

Well, its a big mistake, but ok.

 

I have read the letter from omar to Yazdgird, and in this case omar was very dumb and stupid and did not know that Zorastorians actually beleived in God.

 

Dumb and stupid? This is the biggest tragedy that happened to Iranians in their history. Omar was the first Caliph that came with his group who killed and raped all non-believers. I dont think you can just say it was very dumb and move on. This changed Iranian society like it never had been before, and by force and enslaving and killing.

 

Instead of studing the religion, omar just thought of Zorastorians as fire worshipers, wich is was very very wrong. Yazdgird got furious by this letter, towr it up, and wrote a letter back omar, making omar furious thus taking over Iran and being very hateful towards Iran.

 

Please stop revising history. Omar in his letter had already told Yazdigerd to give up and become Muslim or face horrible consequences. It was not Yazdiger'd letter that infuriated him. This is defacto and indirect way of defending Omar for all the horrible acts that he did. Again I get the sense youare Hashemi, b/c this is how he argues as well.

 

Again, a very very wrong thing to do, thats why most of us Iranians think of arabs as very low people (note how i wrote "arabs" as lower case).

 

No comment.

 

Unfortunatlly, you are right when you say that alot of muslims think of themselfs of having the best religion and that Islam is the best religion in the world, wich it is not.

 

I never made this comment. I said that Islam says that it completes other religions. Therefore, it should have no faults. But as we see over and over again, most of the Quran is filled with rules that have nothing to do with humanity and have no postiive bearing on life.

 

 

To me there are no "best religions." To me all religions are equal and really depends how you want to follow GOD. But during the Sassanian dynasty, many Zorastorians also beleived that they were the best and had the best religion. http://www.iranchamber.com/religions/manichaeism1.php

 

You must look to the SOURCE of the religion. If men or women do bad acts, then that is a differenst story. The way one can judge religion is based on the text of its book. If you read the Quran and you read Gatha and Avesta, you will see how much the Quran is filled with hate and killing, and the Gatha and Avesta are filled with love and compassion.

 

If others do things in the name of religion, that is a different story. But rest assure, that in Islam, it is the text of the Quran that REQUIRES the acts that people are offended by.

 

 

 

Also Zorastorianism inspired islamic traditions. Like for instance the "evil eye", "In the name of GOD", the esfand. Zorastorianism also inspired some Christian traditons too. The coloring of eggs, wintersolstis wich actually came from the Persian Shab-e-Yalda, and yes......the greatest.....jollyiest......fatest creature of them all, Santa Clause and his elf workers ( i think you know who KINDA inspired him. That's right Amoo Norooz and Haji furooz, except Amoo Norooz isnt fat. And I already know the story of the real Saint Nicolas. AND YES I DO BELIEVE IN AMOO NOROOZ, BECAUSE HE'S REAL. HE REALLY IS, I SAW HIM, REALLY!!!!!!!!!)

 

So people copy things. No issue there, really.

 

Please don't tell me that you are qouting the Quran that the islamic republic made because that whole book is a big lie.

 

I look up many translations of the Quran from different sources with different views, and make sure that the translations are in harmony. And I am not exactly sure what Quran the IRI has, but the Qurans I look to are much older than that.

 

Again, instead of indirectly saying that my translations are incorrect so you protect Islam, you are free to look up the translations of the verses that I put, and you can see that the translations are the correct translations.

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Also, please don't say that you are following fuladvand, because he makes up big lies also.

 

I have watched his show, like I watch many others such as Bahram Moshiri. I am not sure where you get the idea that he says lies. From what I have seen, every single thing that he says, he puts the book that says that fact on the screen. How is it is a lie to say what those books say? If you don't agree with the book, that does not make Fouladvand a liar, rather it is you who do not want to accept history books.

 

Anyways, I have a suggestion:

 

Instead of doing character assisnations on him by saying that he makes up big lies, do the following..

 

Open a new Thread, lable it Fouladvand -- Fabrication or Truth About History. This way it is objective and not one sied. And put up the things that you say are fabrications, and show the evidnece of why they are fabrications.

 

I also beleive that iranians who are changing their religion fromm islam to another not because of islam itself but rather because of the "islamic repubic of iran."

 

No, it is because of Islam. The IRI is following the rules of the Quran, rest assure. In fact, the IRI is an ANGLE when compared to the Quran, b/c if it really wanted to follow all of the rules in the Quran, you'd see people's hands and feet being cut off everyday in the streed, and people being beheaded everyday, and so forth.

 

( You know what, instead of a war, maybe Bush should just tell the Tehranians to evacuate Tehran secretly and america should bomb the islamic republic. I would very very like that. I would be dancing forever :happy_wft: :DD :dance_baby_wft: :clap2: :yeah: )

 

No comment.

 

Do you also have any ideas on how to save Iran while being outside Iran? ( and i don't mean protesting or pititions because i don't think that's working)

 

First of all, I go to Iran once in a while. So I am not outside of Iran all of the time. In addition, there is another thread in the Politics thread, and we can discuss this there. I do not want to get off topic here.

 

Also, what do you think about Suffi muslims?

 

ALl I can tell you is that to be ANY muslim, you must follow the Quran. And it is the Quranic laws that have major problems.

 

Oh and why didn't you add Ferdowsi on your list of great iranian heroes? Being a hero dosen't always mean you have to fight and shed blood.

 

It does not. Ferdowsi is perhaps the biggest hero, and that is why I chose him as my greatest Iranian in the history thread. The thread that you are referring to, if you read the first post, is dedicated to those who lost thier live and who are not very well known, or well known at all. Everyone knows about Ferdowsi, and I had nothing to add about him.

 

Again, I'm sorry if I offended you.

 

Not at all. I enjoy conversations. This is not about me and you offending each other. That is certainly not my goal. This is about you and me exchanging ideas so you, me, and everyone else can get a better sense and understanding of issues.

 

But I mean we are human and we shouldn't fight on a matter that happened 2,000 years ago, look hear we are fighting each other when we could be good freinds, right? All that we need to know is that we don't like arabs and that we both have persian pride and come from a great culture that alot of iranians miss use.

 

We are not fighting. Why do you call this fighting? This is about exchanging information, much of which is unknown by many. It is about itellectual growth, knowledge about the religion that most Iranians are born into, about Iranian history, about what's happened in the past. These are information that everyone must know in order to live in a healthy and proserous society, where we can be independent and be even closer to each other.

 

To tell you the truth, I once also wanted to become a Zartosht. But even thoe I'm muslim doesn't mean I don't follow Zartosht's rules also. I also follow Goftaranik, Pendaranik, and Rafdaranik. I'm still studying Zorastorianism. I also celebrate Christmas( but i think its just to feel how a western lifestyle is).

 

Cool.

 

Sorry I made different posts. The quotes were not working right.

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If it was written by believers and not Mohammad itself, then it is even more proof that it is not the word of God b/c the only person who proclaimed himself to be a prophet of God is Mohammad. If all of these rules are man written, and are not the word of God, and they are so inhumane and vicious, why would any rational person follow them?

 

I'm actually suprized that you didn't know this fact. People just jotted down what Mohammad had said. After Mohhammad's death was it when they created the Quran. It is still a holy book because it still has Mohammad's words about GOD in it, plus with the stories that the followers have wrote in their from their own ideas. Plus, it wasnt just ONE follower who wrote the Quran at that time. Many followers did, making many different types of Qurans. You must also remember that in thoes times, the arab tribes were always at war. There were visouse punishments, aka the ones you have stated, but this is kinda odd because i don't see anything visouse in the Quran i have read. Netheir did i see anything about not believing in Jesus and Moses. Infact the Quran i have read said that you must also believe in the words of Jesus, Moses, Abraham, etc. It says how GOD sent them down to give people faith.

 

So why Kill people over for not following the rules?

 

Simple, alot of poeple are gullible and stupid. Go ask the kkk, hitler, osama, and the islamic republic that question.

 

It seems you have found alot of negative islamic stuff. Have you read any of the normal or positive (non-terroristic) ones?

There are alot of negative stuff about islam, especially these days, but that dosnt mean that they are nesseseraly true, same with me. For example, there is this website on Martin Luther King Jr. but its all negative stuff about him.

 

Sufism i think is the best part of islam. They see the world more brighter than others do. Alot of medatation (what everybody needs). Their almost opposite of what normal islamist and terrorists are. Their heads are full of poetry and music and peacefullness. You know it yourself. Rumi, Hafez, Shahram Naazeri, and much more.

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If it was written by believers and not Mohammad itself, then it is even more proof that it is not the word of God b/c the only person who proclaimed himself to be a prophet of God is Mohammad. If all of these rules are man written, and are not the word of God, and they are so inhumane and vicious, why would any rational person follow them?

 

I'm actually suprized that you didn't know this fact. People just jotted down what Mohammad had said. After Mohhammad's death was it when they created the Quran. It is still a holy book because it still has Mohammad's words about GOD in it, plus with the stories that the followers have wrote in their from their own ideas. Plus, it wasnt just ONE follower who wrote the Quran at that time. Many followers did, making many different types of Qurans. You must also remember that in thoes times, the arab tribes were always at war. There were visouse punishments, aka the ones you have stated, but this is kinda odd because i don't see anything visouse in the Quran i have read. Netheir did i see anything about not believing in Jesus and Moses. Infact the Quran i have read said that you must also believe in the words of Jesus, Moses, Abraham, etc. It says how GOD sent them down to give people faith.

 

I understand your point and am aware of it. My point was that it is people's perception that this is the word of God, when the fact is that the oldest Quran cannot be found until I believe 200 years after Mohammad's death. I personally do not bleive for one second that it is the word of God regardless of who wrote it, but the fact that it was not even written by Mohammad is further evidence that it is not the word of God, and yet another reason not to follow the rules.

 

With regard to accepting Moses and Jesus, the Quran also adds that Mohammad completes them. If the person who pretends to be "God" in the Quran was truly God, why didn't that entity get it right w/ previous prophets and would need to "complete" them? This shows that it is not the word of God but rather some people who wanted to take advantange of others and rule over them.

 

And you don't find cutting hands and feet, crucifying, killing, not accepting of those who want to change, not being friends with Christians or Jews, counting women 1/2 of men as not vicious? These are very vicious. I'll be more than happy to bring you the very many vicious aspects of the Quran. Look in the thread Quranic rules, and I will post some as soon as I can.. Probably by the end of this week. There are over 500 verses that are EXTREMELY vicious. I will post as many as I can, and I hope you read them and then give me your thoughts.

 

So why Kill people over for not following the rules?

Simple, alot of poeple are gullible and stupid. Go ask the kkk, hitler, osama, and the islamic republic that question.

 

It seems you have found alot of negative islamic stuff. Have you read any of the normal or positive (non-terroristic) ones?

There are alot of negative stuff about islam, especially these days, but that dosnt mean that they are nesseseraly true, same with me. For example, there is this website on Martin Luther King Jr. but its all negative stuff about him.

 

i have read the entire Quran, more than once. It is not about me having read "negative stuff". I have read it all. The simple fact is that the Quran takes postiive aspects of other religions, and thus that stuff does not belong to Islam but rather belongs to other religions, and adds A LOT of negative and vicious and inhumane rules.

 

You can't compare the Quran with the KKK. THe QUran is said to be the word of God. The KKK does whatever it wants. Same with Hitler and Osama. You must look to the TEXT of a religion to see what is required. Those people that you mention are TERRORISTS AND MURDERERS. So if the QUran REQUIRES some of the acts that those people perform, what doy ou call the Quran which is the SOURCE of such acts. It turns the QUran to those same labels.

 

So the problem here is with the Text of the Quran, which itself requires many attrotious acts.

 

Sufism i think is the best part of islam. They see the world more brighter than others do. Alot of medatation (what everybody needs). Their almost opposite of what normal islamist and terrorists are. Their heads are full of poetry and music and peacefullness. You know it yourself. Rumi, Hafez, Shahram Naazeri, and much more.

 

In other words, they do not follow the entire Quran. Therefore, they cannot be following Islam. The Quran is filled iwth intollerance, killing, and doing everything the Islamic way or facing death. There is nothing bright or peaceful about those requirements.

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Lately, I have noticed that a lot of Iranians are turning away from Islam. More specifically, there are a lot of people who now wear the Faravahar.

 

So my question is (1) If you are Iranian and (2) were born in a Muslim family, which of the above choices best describes you? This question ONLY applies to Iranians.

 

Thanks :)

 

I guess a final choice is (5) Born Muslim - Don't believe in Religion anymore.

 

 

First off, To answer ur question, I think the answer to all your Question is simply, None Your Damn bussiness man. What do u care about what someone belives?

and u don't have to be born in Iran to be called Iranian, I grew up muslim and I dont belive in Islam at all. I think all religions all BS str8 up. maybe thats out of topic, but a religion or beleif does not classify your nationality, we all share one thing and thats race, don't take religion and other BS into it. Dont try to classify people by their religion/comfort zone or the place they are born, I have never spent a SEC in IRan i been in the states all my life but my heritage is Iranian, botom line disblieving Islam not having a common religous background does not make you unIranian son.

 

a religion doesn't describe you, everybody has personal reasons for what he belives, that cannot be shared with others. Hope this clears things up a little, If you need clarification, or have more questions feel free to raise them. I'm all about free expression

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Lately, I have noticed that a lot of Iranians are turning away from Islam. More specifically, there are a lot of people who now wear the Faravahar.

 

So my question is (1) If you are Iranian and (2) were born in a Muslim family, which of the above choices best describes you? This question ONLY applies to Iranians.

 

Thanks :)

 

I guess a final choice is (5) Born Muslim - Don't believe in Religion anymore.

 

 

First off, To answer ur question, I think the answer to all your Question is simply, None Your Damn bussiness man. What do u care about what someone belives?

and u don't have to be born in Iran to be called Iranian, I grew up muslim and I dont belive in Islam at all. I think all religions all BS str8 up. maybe thats out of topic, but a religion or beleif does not classify your nationality, we all share one thing and thats race, don't take religion and other BS into it. Dont try to classify people by their religion/comfort zone or the place they are born, I have never spent a SEC in IRan i been in the states all my life but my heritage is Iranian, botom line disblieving Islam not having a common religous background does not make you unIranian son.

 

a religion doesn't describe you, everybody has personal reasons for what he belives, that cannot be shared with others. Hope this clears things up a little, If you need clarification, or have more questions feel free to raise them. I'm all about free expression

 

Good for you.

 

Next time, it'd be nice if you could act a little more civil instead of calling people "son" and saying "none of your damn business." Obviously, more than 30 people cared enough to answer, and if you don't care to answer, just don't do it instead of making personal attacks.

 

And when did I ever say that you have to be born in Iran to be called Iranians? The question was addressed to Iranians who are born in Muslim families. So next time, please read and understand what is said a little more carefully before going on and giving lectures.

 

Anyway... a little too much steam for no reason..

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I was not attacing on your person, I simply think that you are wrong, I simply disagree, if that's insulting to you to hear a different perspective i'm sorry.. if u wanna call it attack fine, that shows you are not a good proponent for open disscusion, or you may not posses the inttellect to make a good argument. either way I can care less I argue with ones that have. I'm sure there are a lot people on here who are smart enough to step forward on a friendly chat note for an argument unlike you and we gonna enjoy it... good luck with your attitude I didn't say nothing bad I can care less if u are mad at me, obviously you are looking for drama.

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I was not attacing on your person, I simply think that you are wrong, I simply disagree, if that's insulting to you to hear a different perspective i'm sorry.. if u wanna call it attack fine, that shows you are not a good proponent for open disscusion, or you may not posses the inttellect to make a good argument. either way I can care less I argue with ones that have. I'm sure there are a lot people on here who are smart enough to step forward on a friendly chat note for an argument unlike you and we gonna enjoy it... good luck with your attitude I didn't say nothing bad I can care less if u are mad at me, obviously you are looking for drama.

 

Just one quick point:

 

You say that you are about open discussion and so forth, and that you'd like to have arguments...

 

How can you have a discussion when you answer someone's question by stating "none of your damn business." Doesn't that mean, you DON'T want to a have a discussion?

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How is my tone bothering you ? lol

Ok I think I have to respond to this, some of it atleast.. Ok first off, I have showed a lot of restraint on my part to just create an account and become a member on your forum and try to post and contribute what I can and share ideas as I do on other forums. if you think my tone doesn't suit this board, fine I'll leave... it aint a fire thing with fire. I thought that I can provide useful materials that people inside of the forum could enjoy. and I'm simpley being attacked for it. and if you came out of my way just for that to threatened me with ban or anything, Cool Go Ahead. My skin is pretty thick and my ego not too large so if you wanna be the board ABUSE of power. that dont bother me go ahead. That won't stop me from speaking out my mind I guarantee it won't back me off the slightest. I'm just getting to know this probably aint the kindda forum I wanna check out. and you aint the kindda people i like to deal. You just confirm it. Peace.

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How is my tone bothering you ? lol

Ok I think I have to respond to this, some of it atleast.. Ok first off, I have showed a lot of restraint on my part to just create an account and become a member on your forum and try to post and contribute what I can and share ideas as I do on other forums. if you think my tone doesn't suit this board, fine I'll leave... it aint a fire thing with fire. I thought that I can provide useful materials that people inside of the forum could enjoy. and I'm simpley being attacked for it. and if you came out of my way just for that to threatened me with ban or anything, Cool Go Ahead. My skin is pretty thick and my ego not too large so if you wanna be the board ABUSE of power. that dont bother me go ahead. That won't stop me from speaking out my mind I guarantee it won't back me off the slightest. I'm just getting to know this probably aint the kindda forum I wanna check out. and you aint the kindda people i like to deal. You just confirm it. Peace.

 

the choice is yours, stay or leave! But IF you want to stay you are to refrain from the tone used in such phrases, otherwise you’ll see the exertion of power you wish to provoke!

 

First off, To answer ur question, I think the answer to all your Question is simply, None Your Damn bussiness man. What do u care about what someone belives?

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"fix your attitude" lol how do you know my attitude needs fixing? now that's mean lol

"Try watching your attitude" would be a more mature statement to use thou

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Though you had chosen a very suitable name, Congratulations for getting your smart azz banned mr rebel without a cause!

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I'm an Openminded Muslim :) does that count?

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Good poll!

 

Born a muslim. No longer consider myself a muslim or atleast the definition it holds.

Just believe in god, good health, my parents and friends.

 

I think the definition of islam has become more diluted since the revolution and many Iranians that I know of have turned their back on religion and what it stands for.

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Good poll!

 

Born a muslim. No longer consider myself a muslim or atleast the definition it holds.

Just believe in god, good health, my parents and friends.

 

I think the definition of islam has become more diluted since the revolution and many Iranians that I know of have turned their back on religion and what it stands for.

 

you sound like my baba! :haha:

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Good poll!

 

Born a muslim. No longer consider myself a muslim or atleast the definition it holds.

Just believe in god, good health, my parents and friends.

 

I think the definition of islam has become more diluted since the revolution and many Iranians that I know of have turned their back on religion and what it stands for.

 

you sound like my baba! :haha:

 

Cheers! I take it as a complement. lol :)

 

Good poll!

 

Born a muslim. No longer consider myself a muslim or atleast the definition it holds.

Just believe in god, good health, my parents and friends.

 

I think the definition of islam has become more diluted since the revolution and many Iranians that I know of have turned their back on religion and what it stands for.

 

you sound like my baba! :haha:

 

Cheers! I take it as a complement. lol :)

 

 

:o :t :f :oo :nea:

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I'm an Openminded Muslim :) does that count?

 

akheh aziz what i love about islam is that for me its a very personal religion...so whatever u decide to practice or believe its beyne khodeto khodat and i love that! we cannot judge if that counts or not...but it sounds good to me :air_kiss_wft:

 

sorry i may be really ignorant but iv never heard of faravahr what is it? :bl

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