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Do you agree with the math in the question?  

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  1. 1. Do you agree with the math in the question?

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First post here so be gentle. I've been asking friends this question for some time and no one has been able to give an answer that even they believe. So here is the question.

 

How can any one religion be right or accurate or even good for humanity when there is no one religion which brings more people together then it separates?

 

I came to this question after a math class on set theory and it’s been bugging me for some time. Can't say I believe in GOD or a higher being. I believe we are responsible for what we do and what happens to us. No one to pass the blame to, or thank but yourself so be proud of yourself and take responsibility for what you do. Or at least that’s what i think.

 

Let me know if this sparks other questions in your mind because it certainly has been with me.

 

_The_Kam_

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I've always said religion brings together the minority but seperates the majority....

 

:air_kiss_wft:

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Good question, The Kam.

 

I don't think you can make a generalization about "religion." Although I think it is true, for the most part, that religion does a lot to tear people apart, there are certain religions that are a lot more tolerant and some others that are not tolerant at all.

 

To use Iran as an example, Iran has had two major religions in its history: Zoroastrianism which was predominant pre-Islam and Islam which obviously became the major religion of Iran from about 1300 or so years ago.

 

As a comparison of the two, it is very clear that Zoroastrianism is a very tolerable religion, but Islam is not. For example:

 

Cyrus’ cylinder, under which time the Persians believed in Zoroastrianism and is derived from that religion states, according to encyclopedia Wikipedia “The cylinder decrees the normal themes of Persian rule: religious tolerance, abolishment of slavery, freedom of choice of profession and expansion of empire.”

 

On the other hand, the Quran provides the following (and there are many other verses like the below):

 

ABOUT CHRISTIANS AND JEWS:

 

Quran 5:51 Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends. They are but friends and protectors to each other.

Quran 2:61 Humiliation and wretchedness were stamped on the Jews and they were visited with Allah’s wrath.

 

ABOUT FIGHTING AND NON-BELIEVERS

 

Quran 9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).

Quran 9:29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued,"

Quran 5:33 The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive after corruption, making mischief in the land is murder, execution, crucifixion, the cutting off of hands and feet on opposite sides, or they should be imprisoned. That is their degradation and disgrace in this world. And a great torment of an awful doom awaits them in the hereafter.

Quran 8:12 I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle.

Quran 8:57 So if you gain the mastery over them in war, punish them severely in order to disperse those who are behind them, so that they may learn a lesson.

 

In sum, although religion may tear people apart for the most part, and I tend to agree with that, you really must look to the source of each individual religion to get a better answer to your particular question.

 

I hope you enjoy your stay on here!

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Nothing separates people like borders and finances. Because borders are there to mostly protect the financial wealth of a nation. Usually it's true with people too. People of the same financial status like to hang out together.

 

Do you feel the same way about borders? Or do you think all borders should be removed so people can all blend in?

 

Is your argument against separation or religion?

 

The only reason people argue over religion is that they get passionate about it. Any subject that strikes a cord with people will tend to raise arguments. In this case you might want to ban all passion from life so people don't argue.

 

People usually feel very deeply about their country too. They get just as passionate over their country. So you can say people tend to feel deeply about their country and their religion and tend not to back down in those areas.

 

My guess is that the heads of states who have an interest in keeping up their borders and finances will use religion to manipulate people into what direction they want. If it wasn't religion they would use hair color or something. If people felt passionately about hair color that is. But the goal is to keep up the borders and religion is only a means. I happened to use hair color, but now that I think about it, that's what Hitler did because he sensed that's what people wanted to hear. But winning a war is the goal, and they will manipulate people anyway they can.

 

If you remove religion they will find something else to get to people. Like I say unless you remove passion. and I don't thing you want to do that.

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Ok more thoughts...

 

So now we narrowed it down to passion. The main thing that gets people into trouble is being dogmatic. Because somebody can use it against you. The problem is not so much passion but when it is manipulated. So the answer is to keep an open mind for the truth at all times no matter how passionate you feel.

 

In a way religion was supposed to be the main vehicle for that. It was supposed to lead you to the truth. But now we can see that it has held us from the truth. So the answer is to find the truth in religion.

 

Now I backed myself into the wall. Somebody help me please. :dance_baby_wft:

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LOL...some gr8 thoughts....

 

truth and passion.....and religion....well....

 

i wud have to say who can tell if religion is the truth? who can say this religion is wrong or right? it is down to personal preference...ur experience, ur background and most of all the actually religion you believe in!

I dnt think anyone in this world can take a subjective view on religion, not being biased towards one or another. It is simply impossible. I guess truth comes down to belief, and if that belief is a passionate......ok now ive backed myself into a wall... :damn:

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What's important is to get along with other people. That's all there is. Those who are dead against religion are no better than fanatical muslims as they are trying to force their opinion too.

 

I think the real issue is usually money and religion an excuse. Most people do not understand the importance of finances. Nobody ever talks about money. If you notice there is no 'MONEY' category on this forum. I don't know why. Because money is what makes the world go around. and when somebody is trying to confuse you, it's usually to empty your pocket.

 

The original Islam was spread because the Arabs wanted to expand their territory. Mohammad told them they could concur the enemy and capture their home and wives and it was 'Halal'. Same thing today. The real issue is oil and religion an excuse.

 

But it is all because people think there isn't enough to go around. But there really is.

 

If you have a comfortable home and food and shelter, you don't really care what people do in the church. Because you are satisfied with your life.

 

The reason there is poverty is some have too much. The problem is greed. and again religion was supposed to be the cure to greed. Now you can see that religion is used as a vehicle to greed. It shows you how manipulative people can be to use whatever is good and turn it into evil.

 

There is nothing wrong with money. It is your God given right to have money and food and shelter and everything you desire. It's only when you go about it the wrong way.

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Sorry I haven't been able to reply earlier but here I go with my reply to everyone's thoughts to keep this wheel rolling.

 

x)SaRa(x – I like that saying its pretty close to my little idea here. Makes you think… Why don’t people want to be a part of the majority?

 

MeehanDoost – I agree with you that there are more tolerant religions then others and I’m actually quite shocked to read the quotes you cited. I have always believed that my morality comes from my soul and effects me from within. But reading what you wrote showed me that many people’s morals come from a book and words written by others rather then from within. I didn’t grow up in a forced religious life so I’ve never been able to understand how people can put so much weight and belief and life into written words of man from hundreds of years ago which has nothing to do with life on earth today.

 

Its pretty scary to think of children living in a country which forces them to read those words and tells them they are true and perpetuate this belief in hate and separation of man kind as a whole.

 

I’m starting to see now why countries such as Iran and China whish to control the internet in their countries so to halt such ideas like this which forces people to reconsider what they have been told all their lives.

 

Alangoo – I agree with your point on finance and how its used by the heads of state to hurt people of their own nation to advance their wealth as well as point the blame to other nations and religions saying that they are to blame.

 

I’m not so sure I agree with you on the fact that people would find something else if you removed religion. To me religion was great in the beginning. Religion helped spread knowledge of writing and reading and in the beginning they had good ideas about acceptance and such but as people like to say, “all good things must come to an end” and that is what seems to have happened with religion. The good things about religion seem to have come to an end. I’m not saying that is a totality of course there are good people which do good things in the name of their religion but I believe good people could still do good things without religion.

 

People do have an innate want to belong to something that is better then others and that is another reason why religion has flourished. You can even blame this on the superiority complex which men have. But I also believe that with education people can learn about these innate wants and learn to deal with them. Just because we know we have a flaw doesn’t mean we shouldn’t work on resolving it.

 

You guys are definitely right about passion and beliefs and its and I hope I don’t come off as the guy that hates religion and is trying to change everyone’s mind because I’m really not. I’ve just been having a sort of inner turmoil about religion and what my stance should be and for some reason I turned to math. I’m just trying to get some more thoughts on it to help me understand myself better.

 

Well this is enough for one night so give me your thoughts did I make any sense? Lol

 

_The_Kam_

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The Kam --

 

I agree with your points for the most part. I want to add, however, that religion should not be looked at in a vaccuum. Religion and history must be looked at together, and a study of religion without the history behind it is insufficient. Therefore, in order to understand religion, you must look to its history.

 

If you look to Judaism, religion was used to bring the Jews together and keep them together when they settled about 3000 years ago in the same rough area that is today Israel.

 

Christianity also pulled people together. Christianity was originated by a number of Jews who did not want to abide by the strict rules of Judaism.

 

Islam also brought many Arab tribes together. However, as I cited in my original post, Islam, unlike the earlier two religion, specifically ONLY brings together believers and wants to do away, in toto, nonbeleivers.

 

In addition, after the initial point of all these religions, each has kept some people together and torn others apart. To go back to my original post, you must go back to the source of each religion and understand the laws of that religion to understand whether the acts undertaken by people who follow that religion are really based on that religion.

 

I think that you should understand religion, i mean the text or what it stands for, better and then think about the question that you are asking. I think at that point, you will be in a better position to answer your own question.

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x)SaRa(x – I like that saying its pretty close to my little idea here. Makes you think… Why don’t people want to be a part of the majority?

 

 

_The_Kam_

 

 

very true...and also makes u think, are those individuals who arent part of the majority the "insane" ones...or those ppl following the flock....

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