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Born Muslim -- Still a Muslim?


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Poll: Born Muslim - Still Muslim? (57 member(s) have cast votes)

Born Muslim - Still Muslim?

  1. Born Muslim - Still 100% Muslim (24 votes [42.11%])

    Percentage of vote: 42.11%

  2. Born Muslim - Doubting Islam (5 votes [8.77%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.77%

  3. Born Muslim - No longer Muslim (believe in God only) (18 votes [31.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.58%

  4. Born Muslim - Believe in a different religion (10 votes [17.54%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.54%

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#21 x)SaRa(x

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 10:13 AM

:silly_wft:

#22 Siamak

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 10:40 AM

Born Muslim - No longer Muslim (believe in God only) [ 5 ] <--- are jooneh ammeh hatoun.hehehehe j/k

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#23 MeehanDoost

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 11:31 AM

Why is that so hard to believe? People are understanding HOW and WHY they became Muslim. I mean, Persians were NOT Mulsim originally and we had our own religion that believes in a unified God. Its just natural that when people learn about the history and find out why they became Muslim that many would reject it now.

From the poll, about 2/3 of the people have rejected it. If this poll is not representative, I am pretty confident that in Iran over 50% easily hold this view, and if they don't they will very soon. You have to remember that in Iran if someone speaks negatively of Islam or does not want to be Muslim anymore there can be very harsh consequences so people just shut up and don't say anything. But deep inside, rest assure, that many, and most pretty soon if not yet, will feel as this poll is reflecting.

To be very frank, I personally do not believe that you can read and understand Iranian history and remain Muslim. And today, many are understanding Iranian history, much better than they did before.

Be Naameh Khodaavandeh Iran Zamin


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#24 Siamak

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 11:53 AM

Why is that so hard to believe? People are understanding HOW and WHY they became Muslim. I mean, Persians were NOT Mulsim originally and we had our own religion that believes in a unified God. Its just natural that when people learn about the history and find out why they became Muslim that many would reject it now.

From the poll, about 2/3 of the people have rejected it. If this poll is not representative, I am pretty confident that in Iran over 50% easily hold this view, and if they don't they will very soon. You have to remember that in Iran if someone speaks negatively of Islam or does not want to be Muslim anymore there can be very harsh consequences so people just shut up and don't say anything. But deep inside, rest assure, that many, and most pretty soon if not yet, will feel as this poll is reflecting.

To be very frank, I personally do not believe that you can read and understand Iranian history and remain Muslim. And today, many are understanding Iranian history, much better than they did before.


douste azizeh man, uni keh madar pedaresh mosalmouneh,mosalmoun beh donya miad, ageh begeh nist, bayad biad shahed biareh,un ham 3 nafar, 2 nafareshoun mosalmoun va yek nafar az un mazhabi keh taraf entekhab kardeh va biad begeh keh man digeh mosalmoun nistam !

shoma chand nafar ro mishnasi keh hamchin kari ro kardan ? midouni chera kasi in kar ro nemikoneh ? chon mojazatesh dar Islam, marg hast ! midounam keh islam perfect nist,manam aslan practic nakardam va nemikonam dineh islam ro,vali hamash nemisheh beh harf,umad goft, ahay ,man mosalmoun nistam ! in chiza hesab ketab dareh, ghanoun va dastan va hekayat dareh ,beh in sadegi nist !

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#25 pourya

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 12:07 PM

Born Muslim - No longer Muslim (believe in God only) [ 5 ] <--- are jooneh ammeh hatoun.hehehehe j/k


Siamak jaan, lotfan be eteghade digaran ehteram bezar!

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#26 Siamak

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 12:12 PM

chashm boss :) .

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#27 MeehanDoost

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 12:29 PM

douste azizeh man, uni keh madar pedaresh mosalmouneh,mosalmoun beh donya miad, ageh begeh nist, bayad biad shahed biareh,un ham 3 nafar, 2 nafareshoun mosalmoun va yek nafar az un mazhabi keh taraf entekhab kardeh va biad begeh keh man digeh mosalmoun nistam !

shoma chand nafar ro mishnasi keh hamchin kari ro kardan ? midouni chera kasi in kar ro nemikoneh ? chon mojazatesh dar Islam, marg hast ! midounam keh islam perfect nist,manam aslan practic nakardam va nemikonam dineh islam ro,vali hamash nemisheh beh harf,umad goft, ahay ,man mosalmoun nistam ! in chiza hesab ketab dareh, ghanoun va dastan va hekayat dareh ,beh in sadegi nist !


Geraami:

These rules only apply if you belive in Islam in the first place. If you don't believe it, then why would you want to follow "Islamic Rules" to no longer be Muslim? That rule that you say makes absolute NO sense. I mean, I do not consider myself Muslim, why would I want to follow "Islamic Rules"? It just makes no sense. And as you mentioned yourself, the penalty is death, so why would anyone openly do it? If someone doesnt want to be Muslim, they won't be Muslim anymore. And it really is that simple. Islam is a belief and if you do not believe it, you don't need someone else to witness it or ratify it for you. That is just another way to keep control over people's lives.

Be Naameh Khodaavandeh Iran Zamin


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#28 Siamak

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 12:31 PM



douste azizeh man, uni keh madar pedaresh mosalmouneh,mosalmoun beh donya miad, ageh begeh nist, bayad biad shahed biareh,un ham 3 nafar, 2 nafareshoun mosalmoun va yek nafar az un mazhabi keh taraf entekhab kardeh va biad begeh keh man digeh mosalmoun nistam !

shoma chand nafar ro mishnasi keh hamchin kari ro kardan ? midouni chera kasi in kar ro nemikoneh ? chon mojazatesh dar Islam, marg hast ! midounam keh islam perfect nist,manam aslan practic nakardam va nemikonam dineh islam ro,vali hamash nemisheh beh harf,umad goft, ahay ,man mosalmoun nistam ! in chiza hesab ketab dareh, ghanoun va dastan va hekayat dareh ,beh in sadegi nist !


Geraami:

These rules only apply if you belive in Islam in the first place. If you don't believe it, then why would you want to follow "Islamic Rules" to no longer be Muslim? That rule that you say makes absolute NO sense. I mean, I do not consider myself Muslim, why would I want to follow "Islamic Rules"? It just makes no sense. And as you mentioned yourself, the penalty is death, so why would anyone openly do it? If someone doesnt want to be Muslim, they won't be Muslim anymore. And it really is that simple. Islam is a belief and if you do not believe it, you don't need someone else to witness it or ratify it for you. That is just another way to keep control over people's lives.


Ok, This your opinion and this is what and how you undrestand it and i respect you because of that :) .

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#29 MeehanDoost

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 12:41 PM

Thanks.

I'd also like to add the following...

Your forefathers, like my forefathers, were most probably Zoroastrians. The Arabs invaded Iran and forced people to become Muslim. The earliest and most original source for this is the letter from Omar Ibn Khatab to Yazde Gerd III and a reponse letter from Yazde Gerd III to Omar. I have previously posted this letter in this forum.

So, let's get this straight: the Arabs came and said, (1) you must be Muslim or we will kill you; and (2) after you become Muslim if you decide to covert back, we will again kill you. These are the rules right?

Why would you as a person who believes in Islam accept such rules? Do you think these are OK rules to have for a society? Are they civil? Are they humane? They're not.

I really think that if you read about the history of how your forefathers became Muslim, you'd have a different point of view. However, I understand that it is your choice, but knowledge of your past is extremely important about how you are today.

HISTORICAL LETTERS:

The Historical Letters

For Persian version klick here( word doc)

From: Omar Ibn Al Khatab Khalifat Al Muslemin
To: Yazdgird III Shahanshah of Persian Empire

Yazdgird, I see not a fruitful future for you & your nation unless you accept my offer & commit Bei'at (Joining with Khalifat & bringing Islam). Once upon a time your land ruled half the known world but what has it come down to now? Your troops are defeated in all fronts & your nation is bound to collapse. I offer you a way to rescue yourself. Start praying to a mono God, a single union God, the only God who created everything in the universe. We bring you & the world his message, he who is the true God. Stop your Fire Worship, command your nation to stop their Fire Worship which is false; join us by joining the truth. Worship Allah O Akbar the only true God, The creator of universe. Worship to Allah & accept Islam as your salvation. End your Pagan ways & your false worships now & bring Islam so you can accept Allah O Akbar as your savior. By doing so, you will find the only way to your survival & peace for Persians. If you know what is best for Ajam (Arabic term for Persians meaning Retarded & Weird), you will choose this path. Bei'at is the only way.

Allah O Akbar
sign,
Khalifat Al Muslemin
Omar Ibn Al Khatab
* * * * * *

And here is Yazdgird III, famous respond to Omar:

From: Shah of Shahs, Shah of Persia and Beyond, Shah of many Kingdoms, Shah of Aryans and Non Aryans, Shah of Persians and many other races as well as Arabs, Shahanshah of Persian Empire, Yazdgird III Sassanid

To: Omar Ibn Al Khatab, Khalifat of Tazi (Persian term for Arabs,


In the name of Ahura Mazda, creator of Life & Intelligence,

You in your letter wrote that you want to direct us towards your God, Allah O Akbar, without having the true knowledge of who we are & what do we worship! It is amazing that you occupy the position of Khalifat (Ruler) of Arabs, yet your knowledge is the same as a lowly Arab rambler, roaming in deserts of Arabia, & same as a desert tribal man!

"Little Man" ( mardak) you offer me to worship a united & single God without knowing that it has been thousands of years that Persians worship the mono God & they pray to him Five Times a day! In this land of culture & art this has been the normal path of life for years.

When we established the tradition of hospitality & good deeds in the world & we waved the flag of "Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds" in our hands, you & your ancestors were roaming the deserts, eating Lizards for you had nothing else to feed yourselves & burying your innocent daughters alive (an old Arab tradition, cause they preferred male children to female)!

Tazi people have no value for God's creatures! You behead God's children, even the POWs (Prisoners of War), Rape Women, bury your daughters alive, attack the Caravans, mass murder, kidnap people's wives & steal their property! Your hearts are made of stone, we condemn all these Evil which you do. How can you teach us Godly Ways when you commit these action?

You tell me to stop my Fire Worship! Us, Persians see the Love of Creator & power of inventor in the light of Sun & warmth of Fire. Lights & Warmth of the Sun & Fire makes us see the light of truth & warmens our hearts to the creator & to one another. It helps us to be kind to one another, it enlightens us & makes us to keep Mazda's Flame, alive in our hearts. Our lord is Ahura Mazda & it is strange that you people also, just discovered him & named him Allah O Akbar! But we are not the same as you, we are not in the same level as you. We help other human being, we spread love among humanity, we spread Good throughout the Earth, we have been spreading our culture but in respect for other cultures throughout the whole world for thousands of years, yet you in the name of Allah invade other men's land! You mass murder the people, create famine, fear & poverty for others, you create Evil in the name of Allah. who is responsible for all this catastrophe?

Is it Allah who commands you to murder, pillage & to destroy?
Is it you the followers of Allah who do this in his name?
Or Is it both?

You have risen from heat of the deserts & burnt out infertile lands with no resources, you want to teach people the love of God by your military campaigns & the power of your Swords! You are Desert Savages, yet you want to teach Urban people like us who lived in the cities for thousands of years, the love of God! We have thousands of years of culture behind us, a powerful tool indeed! Tell us? With all your military campaigns, barbarianism, murder & pillage in the name of Allah O Akbar, what have you taught to this Muslim Army? What knowledge have you taught the Muslim that you also insist on teaching it to non Muslim? What culture have you learned from your Allah, now that you want to force-teach it to others?

Alas, Oh Alas...... that today our Persian Armies of Ahura have been defeated from your recently Allah Worshiping Armies; Now, our people have to worship the same God, the same Five times a day, but forced by the sword to call him Allah & pray to him in Arabic, cause your Allah only understands Arabic!

I suggest, you & your gang of bandits pack up & move back to your deserts where they are used to live. Take them back where they used to the burning heat of the sun, tribal life, eating Lizards & drinking Camel Milk. I forbid you to let your band of thieves loose in our fertile lands, civilized cities & our glorious nation. Don't turn these "beasts with hearts of stone" loose, to mass murder our people, kidnap our women & children, rape our wives & send our daughters to Mecca as slaves! Don't let them do these crimes in the name of Allah O Akbar, put a stop to your criminal behavior.

Aryans are forgiving, warm, hospitable, & decent people and everywhere they went, they have spread seeds of friendship, love, knowledge & truth; therefore, they shall not punish you & your people for your pirate ways & criminal acts.

I beg you to remain with your Allah O Akbar in your deserts & do not move close to our civilized cities, for your believes are "Much Fearful" & your behavior is "Most Barbaric"!

sign,


Yazdgird III Sassanid

Be Naameh Khodaavandeh Iran Zamin


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#30 shugs

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 09:18 PM

WOW! thats amazing meehan! so opinions havent changed in the past 1600 years... Islam was forged on the tip of a Tazis sword...! preaching the name of God while doing barberic acts that are even still seen today...

So i was wondering, mite do a poll on this, all you who say u only believe in God.. whats ur standing point on 'Causality' are we completely free to choose what we please or have we been determined by God? Khayyams concept of 'Soft Determinism' is accepted (as in we have some freedom of choice, yet ultimatly we are determined by God or causality) it falls into Aquinas' theory of an 'Un-moved Mover' as in the One singularity that set every thing in motion (God)...

#31 MeehanDoost

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 09:23 PM

Do the poll and let's see what the responses are.

Be Naameh Khodaavandeh Iran Zamin


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#32 x)SaRa(x

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 04:39 AM

Meehan - thats amazing.... :air_kiss_wft:

#33 Persian_Empire

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 07:41 AM

Good job meehan. We need more ppl like you who hasnt forgotten their history. By the way for those who dont believe the historicals letter, some of them are kept in British muesum and i have been there and seen them with my own eyes.

Be name Ahura ye Iran zamin


Cho Iran nabashad tane man mabad




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THINK GOOD.....SPEAK GOOD....DO GOOD



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Defeat of a Roman emperor


#34 MeehanDoost

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 11:37 PM

Thanks to all of you. Throughout Iran's post-Islam history, it has been an institutional act to keep Iranians away from their history, distort history, talk negatively about our forefathers (and their belief system), say great things about invaders of Iran (of how they loved Iranians and how Iranians went towards them -- statemnts that go against ALL historical evidence), and so forth. However, I am sure that when real Iranians, and by that I mean those who truly love Iran and want to understand facts and truth about their history rather than want to follow ideas without ever once looking into the issues themselves and not even thinking about them, realize the atortious acts that the Arab invaders did to our people (such as kill, rape, enslave, call us lower than human -- many things that were stated by people such as Imams and I will bring the source that one of the Imams, i believe Hussein, said that Iranian men are worth nothing more than slaves and their women nothing worth than maids -- or something similar to that) Iranians will be in a much better position to know who they are and what mistakes are many of the beliefs that they hold.

Ultimately it is up to Iranians to want to learn and understand their past, and no one should impose any belief on anyone. Imposing a belief system would equivilate us to the invaders that did these acts. But I am sure that by knowing our past, and knowing our history, we will be a much greater nation (and we are and always have been a great nation) and we will be able to be much freerer and stronger.

Jaaveed va ostovaar Iran Zamin.

Be Naameh Khodaavandeh Iran Zamin


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#35 SHIMI

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 03:50 PM

Funk THE MUSLIM !!!
Funk ALL THE MUSLIM PEPOLE IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo:

#36 MeehanDoost

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 03:55 PM

Dude, first of all, you will get banned for making such a statement. Also, this is a forum to discuss, not to be rude or attack others. Instead of making blanket attacks, make an argument, set forth facts, ect. I hope that you revise your post.

Be Naameh Khodaavandeh Iran Zamin


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#37 P to the IMP

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 06:26 PM

born muslim, no longer a muslim, only believe in God.
Iranian History Forum

Everyone is welcome to join. Please come and help the only Iranian history forum on the internet grow.

#38 pourya

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 11:13 PM

Funk THE MUSLIM !!!
Funk ALL THE MUSLIM PEPOLE IN THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo:



BANNED!!! It's people like you who ruin it for other Israelis!

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#39 Alangoo

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 08:39 AM

Do you think you are polling the right people? You are talking a to a bunch of westernized ex pats who have lived outside of their country for a good part of their life. Some were born here or mostly raised here. I think you'd get different results in Qome.
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Honar nazd Iranianast o bas.

#40 MeehanDoost

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 11:10 AM

Do you think you are polling the right people? You are talking a to a bunch of westernized ex pats who have lived outside of their country for a good part of their life. Some were born here or mostly raised here. I think you'd get different results in Qome.


I think that you are right about that. But I don't have access to those people! lol

But you know, I read an article from AP a few months ago and they were interviewing young people. One of them flat out said that i was born Muslim, but if you ask a great number of people in Iran, they rather be Zoroastrian, Christian or some other religion.

So let's keep this about the people in this forum. We can open up a diferent thread, if you like, and discuss what goes on inside of Iran there. Let's not get off topic and discuss those people here. Thanks :)

Be Naameh Khodaavandeh Iran Zamin


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